WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW BEFORE YOU MEET YOUR DME Part I

This is part 1 of what I hope to be a series:  “I’ve just been diagnosed with apnea–now what????”

Sometimes you have your titration study (test with a CPAP mask to determine how much pressure you need to keep your airway open) on the same night as the sleep study (a “split-study”) or sometimes you have the tiration study on a second night in the sleep lab.  In either case, once you have had your titraiton study and the sleep specialist has determined the type of machine and pressure you will need, a prescription will be sent to a “DME” (CPAP supplier). 

DME stands for Durable Medical Equipment, and the term “DME” is sometimes used to describe the equipment (CPAP machines and masks, as in “I have 80% coverage from my insurance company for DME”) or the supplier (the company that provides the CPAP machine, as in “Valley Oxygen is my DME”).  Sometimes, “DME” is even used to describe the person who owns or works at the DME company, as in “my DME said . . . “

A DME (company) is supposed to receive your prescription, help you find the best machine to meet your needs, help you find the mask that you are most comfortable in, educate you about these, and provide the machine and equipment.  DME’s are supposed to understand how your insurance works and have Respiratory Therapists (RT’s) who can help you have a good experience with the CPAP so you can be successful in your therapy. 

SUPPOSED TO

And in the real world . . .

Some DME’s actually work that way.

Most do not. . .

That’s the first bit of information you need to know before you meet your DME.  This is ‘Merica, folks, land of free enterprise and capitalism.  Every company must make a profit and their goal is to make the most profit they can.  If, in doing so, they can serve your needs, that’s great.  But your needs are not their main concern, except to the extent that meeting your needs furthers the DME’s profit.  It’s the American way.  And sometimes, it stinks!

If this sounds cynnical, it is.  Some people are lucky to stumble on to a great DME supplier that has a knowledgeable and caring staff who really make it their goal to make sure you are comfortable with your equipment  and that it’s working as well as possible for you.  Unfortunately, this is the exception rather than the rule.  Most DME’s simply want to sell you the equipment at maximum profit, document your compliance so they can get paid, and they hope never to hear from you again except when it’s time to place your order for replacement supplies.   And DME’s (staff) have been known to lie or be totally ignorant of the facts, just to make sure that they maximize their profits and get you the heck out of their hair.  So YOU must be armed with knowledge BEFORE you ever set foot in a DME’s storefront or sign anything on the dotted line.

Your first step will be to determine what insurance coverage you have for DME if any.  If you don’t have insurance coverage, RUN, don’t walk, to an online supplier unless you like paying 2 or 3 times more for equipment and supplies (a rare few DME’s will match online prices for the uninsured).  DME suppliers claim that they give better service than online providers, so it’s worth the extra money, but in almost every case that is simply not true.  So if you don’t have insurance, skip the DME entirely and order your equipment online from a reputable online supplier. 

Now, if your insurance is Medicare, you need to know whether you have traditional Medicare Parts A and B with a supplement/Medigap policy, or if you have Medicare Part C, also known as Medicare Advantage.  What I’m about to say about Medicare applies to traditional Medicare with a supplemental policy, NOT to a Part C Advantage Plan.  Those differ a lot, and you’ll have to figure out the ins and outs of your particular Medicare Advantage plan to learn what your DME coverage is yourself. 

Most (but not all)  private insurerance plans (purchased through an employer  or privately through a broker) follow Medicare guidelines, so I’ll talk about Medicare first. 

Medicare (traditional) pays 80% of the cost of a machine and all the supplies.  There are a few things you need to know:

1.  Medicare sets the price of the machine and then pays 80% of that, regardless of how much the DME wants to charge. 

     a.  Example:  DME charges $2500 for the top of the line machine.  Medicare does NOT pay 80% of $2500.  Medicare decides a reasonable price is $1200 and pays 80% of $1200. 

     b.  Medicare pays by HCPC codes.  These are billing codes, and the HCPC code for a CPAP machine is E0601.  You can look up how much Medicare pays for an E0601 machine in your state on the Medicare Website.  (It’s hard to find and I will post a link one of these days). 

    c. ANY CPAP or APAP machine (but not a bilevel or ASV machine) is E0601, from the dumbest brick of a machine without data capability or EPR to the top of the line machine with all the bells and whistles you could wish for.  Medicare pays one price regardless of which machine you get within the E0601 HCPCs code.  So the only one who really cares (besides you) about what machine you get is the DME.  If you get the bottom of the line brick, the DME makes a lot of money.  If you get the top of the line bells and whistles machine, the DME makes very little.  Guess which one the DME wants you to get? 

2.  Your co-pay is the remaining 20%.  Your supplemental/Medigap policy may pay all or part of that 20%.  Some supplemental policies pay more if you use a “preferred provider”.

3.  Medicare does not actually “buy” the machine, though it buys the humidifier, hose, filters and mask (all by different HCPCs codes).  Medicare requires the machine to be purchased on a “capped rental” basis.  This means that Medicare rents the machine for a period of 13 months.  At the end of the 13 months, the machine is YOURS. 

4.  Medicare requires the DME to prove “compliance”–that you are using the machine for at least 4 hours 70% of the time within a 30 day period.  For that reason, the DME will want to review your data card sometime within the first 30 to 90 days to confirm that you are using the machine.  If you do not meet the compliance requirements, Medicare will not pay.  For that reason, EVERY machine has compliance data capability.  So if you ask a DME for a “data capable” machine, be specific.  Make sure it has “efficacy data” as well as compliance data.  Another way to say this is to insist that there is access to AHI (apnea hypopnea index scores) and leak data. 

5.  Even though it is MUCH less expensive, Medicare will not pay for you to obtain a machine from an online supplier (except for the very few that are Medicare Certified).  Medicare pays only for certified DME’s, because Medicare has requirements (i.e. patient instruction, documentation of compliance, etc.) that DME’s must meet.  Medicare doesn’t have a way to regulate most online suppliers.  So you are stuck with a brick and mortar DME if you want Medicare to help pay.

6.  If you are having trouble figuring out how Medicare and your supplemental policy will work for CPAP equipment and supplies, you can get free Medicare assistance from your states SHIP (State Health Insurance Program in most states)  or HICAP (Health Insurance Counseling and Advocacy  Program in California)  program–the number for these agencies is on the back of your 2011 Medicare and You booklet, or you can find it on the www.medicare.gov website, or by calling 1-800-MEDICARE. 

Most private insurers work a lot like Medicare, but there can be infinite variations.  Therefore, if you are not on Medicare, it’s extremely important that you call YOUR insurer and ask the following questions:

A.  Does the insurer pay by HCPC code, or are only certain machines covered?  If only certain machines, does it pay more for some than others?  If the insurer covers only part of the DME’s cost, are you required to pay the difference between the insurer’s allowable cost and what the insurer pays, or between what the insurer pays and the DME’s retail price?

B.  Does the insurer purchase the machine outright, or require a rental period?

C.  What are your co-pays and deductibles?  This is important!  If a rental period spans more than one calendar year, your out of pocket expenses for co-pays and annual deductibles could easily cost more than buying the machine yourself online.  Or, if you will be changing insurers, you could lose the “credit” for co-pays and deductibles already made or have to change machines.  Make sure you understand all of this before you sign on the dotted line with a DME. 

D.  Does the Insurer cover only certain masks or all masks from the DME?  Again, does the insurer cover supplies (hose, filters, masks, cushions and nasal pillows) by HCPC’s codes or have a limited “formulary” for supplies? 

E.  Does the insurer require you to use only certain DME providers, or will it pay for any DME company?  Do you get better coverage if you go to a “preferred provider”? 

F.  What is the insurer’s schedule for replacement of supplies?  Many, but not all,  follow Medicare guidelines (2 nasal pillows or one mask cushion every 30 days, 2 paper filters every month. 2 foam filters every 6 months, 1 hose every 6 months, one new mask and headgear every 3 months). 

Now, if you have an HMO, all bets are off.  Often (but not always), HMO’s limit the type of machine you can get, the DME provider you use, and may have a limited “formulary” of masks and other supplies.  Medicare Advantage (Part C) plans often work this way as well. 

Why is all this important?  Because you want to walk into the DME armed with this knowledge so they can’t pull “stupid customer” tricks on you like this:

 You want a ResMed Auto S9 (the APAP with the most bells and whistles and the highest price of all the current machines).  The DME says:

     A.  “Your insurance doesn’t cover that machine.”  But you know that your insurer pays by HCPC’s codes and doesn’t care what machine you get as long as it’s under the E0601 HCPC’s code, and the S9 is. 

     B.  “Your prescription has to specify that machine.”  Actually, it does not.  Any prescription for a CPAP machine will allow you to get this machine, but this battle is often never ending with a reluctant DME.  The best defense is to have your doctor specify this machine and write “dispense as written” on the prescription. 

   C.  “You will have to pay $XXX dollars more if you want that machine.”  This is often untrue.  If your insurance covers any E0601 machine and sets an allowable fee, most likely this is NOT true.  But some insurance contracts allow the DME to charge over and above the allowable fee.  So you should know this in advance, AND ALWAYS CHECK WITH YOUR INSURER BEFORE agreeing to pay the extra fee (some people have saved hundreds of dollars they would otherwise have willingly paid by taking this advice!)

    D.  “Your HMO doesn’t cover that machine.”  In most cases, this IS true of HMO’s, but be sure you know if it is true or not before believing the DME on this one. 

For a list of data capable machines, see http://maskarrayed.wordpress.com/2011/09/19/data-capable-machines/ .   You should decide what machine or machines you want and are willing to accept before walking into the DME as well.  Armed with this knowledge, you won’t be a sucker, and you can’t be taken advantage of by your DME.

Responses

  1. This is absolutely great! I wish I had read something like this 5 years ago. Thank you for the many people you will help with this. As I have read several times on someones tag “knowledge is power” I really enjoy cpaptalk.com and all the knowledgeable people there. john

  2. Wish I knew some of this before we got the machine. Trying to figure if we (spouse) needs the auto type or not. After reading this and cpaptalk and sleep apnea forums, I guess we should be finding out how often we are to get replacements. Haven’t heard from doc or dme since we got the machine. 4 months after getting the machine, spouse has decided to try to use it. Thanks for posting. Looking for more! I feel like a sponge!

  3. I’m always happy to hear my posts are helpful. Thanks, Ava and John, for your kind remarks.

  4. Bless you, bless you for your most helpful blog re DME!
    Only 5 days in, and I’m wishing I’d done a little more research first.
    The Sleep Center gave me a list of DME’s but they acted like I had to choose one the night of my cpap titration test. I picked a guy already there who doubles as sleep tech and DME because he seemed like an intelligent and “nice guy” and he is, but I’m just now realizing that his experience could be better — didn’t know much about adding data collection software to machine! –and he does seem a bit reluctant to have me start customizing parts now that I’m experiencing problems.
    “Doubtful Tom”

    • I’m always happy to hear when this is helpful. Glad to see you become more knowledgeable to be your own best advocate.

  5. I am a new subscriber on the cpap forum. Currently I use a standard cpap machine but my doctor has writen a script for
    an auto cpap unit. I am trying to decide what to ask my DME
    to get for me. She has already informed me of a $120 upcharge
    for the Remstar Auto-M Series. You talk highly of the S9 but I
    notice you use the PR System One. These are the two machines
    I’m undecided about. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

  6. Frank,

    First, DO NOT PAY ANY UPCHARGE before you check in with your insurance company. In most cases, insurers contract with DME’s to provide equipment under a particular HCPC’s code for a particular amount. The DME agrees to provide a machine under that code for the insurer’s amount and you pay whatever percentage of that approved amount is not covered by your insurance company. In most cases, it is FRAUD for the DME to charge you one penny more than the price they agreed upon with your insurance company. Some people refer to this as “balance billing” and in most cases, they are not allowed to do that.

    Now, that’s not always the case, but it is MOST of the time. Furthermore, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER take your DME’s word for what the insurance will pay or whether the insurance company’s contract allows the DME to charge over and above the insured price. Understand that DME’s lie. All the time. Do NOT trust your DME.

    I hope you realize that they are trying to “upcharge” you for an older and now discontiued model of the machine??? Are you sure you really want to work with this DME?

    The only way to know for sure whether this practice of upcharging/balance billing is allowed is to ask your insurance company. For an excellent example of how to handle this with the DME check this out: http://www.apneasupport.org/viewtopic.php?p=172055#172055

    Now, as far as machines, many people seem happier with the S9 Autoset for a variety of reasons–it’s supposedly quieter, has the option of a heated hose, and it’s LED screen is color, backlighted, and has a wealth of information on it compared to the PR System One. The PR System One is a good, solid machine, but the only reason I have that instead of the S9 is that my insurer is an HMO and I had NO choice. I got what Kaiser gave me, or I’d be paying out of pocket, and I cannot afford that.

    Be aware that the S9 machine is more expensive than the PR System One, and if your DME is already squawking about providing you with a PR S1 auto they are REALLY going to be unhappy about giving you an S9.

    Good luck!

  7. I was fortunate to get the PR System One auto from DME before I knew anything about apnea. Since then they have been fairly consistent with sending supplies,although I do have to call them.They didn’t like it when told I would be getting my own supplies.

  8. You are fortunate, John. Too many DME’s try to foist PR Plus machines and ResMed Escapes–neither of which is data capable.

    You have a right to buy your supplies from whomever you choose. The DME would like your lifetime repeat business, but many DME’s don’t do anything special to make you WANT to use them forevermore. Just be sure that you are not paying more out of pocket by getting the supplies on your own. No point in that since you may already be paying for the insurance.

  9. Well, I followed your advice and called my insurer (Anthem Senior
    Advantage. ) I knew that the machine they tried to sell me was a
    discontinued model ($120 upchg) and I explained all this to the
    supervisor who got on another line and talked to my DME. Seems
    like Anthem agreed with the DME that since the machine I wanted
    was more expensive the upcharge seemed reasonable!! When I
    asked what Anthem allowed for a CPAP and gave her the HCPC
    code she said that Anthem doesn’t use codes. After an hour of
    back and forth bantering I just ended the conversation so now
    I don’t know what my next step is.

  10. Well, as you notice I say over and over again that if you are on an HMO, as I am, the same rules do not apply. Anthem Senior Advantage is an HMO plan, so you are stuck with the DME provider and the way they deal with CPAP machines, in all likelihood. That’s one of the major downsides of an HMO. You give up a lot of control and choice for (supposedly) lower premiums. I have a System One because that’s my ONLY option for Kaiser HMO–fortunately, they agreed I needed an auto, but my co-pay was higher than it would have been with a straight CPAP machine.

    HMO’s negotiate their own prices with DME’s and they don’t necessarily reimburse by HCPC’s codes. The reason is that HMO’s do a LOT of business with the same DME (because their insured individuals have no choice of DME’s) and the DME cuts them some really good price breaks in exchange. So the DME can say to the HMO that they will provide the X machine at a good deal for the HMO, but not the Y machine. The DME makes a lot of money on volume and repeat business from the HMO and the HMO saves money by negotiating a hard bargain on the price. The only person who may lose is YOU, because the machine your HMO covers may not be the best for you as an individual.

    Before committing to paying this upcharge, you should calculate your out of pocket costs for the deductible(s), co-pays, and up charge and see if it comes close to what you can get a machine for online. I hear the Devlibiss has some very nice machines for reasonable prices, and if you can have a data capable autopap for not much more than your out of pocket costs with Anthem it will be worth it to have what you want.

  11. Thank you for this much needed information. I unfortunately have already made many of the “cardinal” mistakes that your blog warns us about. I thought I was knowledgeable however at the time I was upset about my condition and they (DME) took advantage of this. I have no insurance and paid cash for a Pro System 1 w/humidfier that they recommended, then was told a month later that I really needed a Bi-pap machine. They told me they would work with me on a return on the former however after many visits and calls that never materialized. Since they could not help me I ceased going to them and after finding the “Cpap.com” forum embarked upon my own apnea treatment journey. I appreciate this information and those that are willing to share their experiences for the betterment of us all.

  12. Wow, sorry you had such a terrible experience! DME’s are supposed to help us, but they sometimes act like the scum of the earth. They really take advantage of people who are reeling from a new diagnosis and who are in no position to advocate for themselves at that point.

    Have you looked elsewhere for Bi-Pap like online suppliers, Cpapauction.com, second wind.com, and even careful use of craig’s list???

    • I will give those a sites a shot. Once again, thank you for your help.

  13. Jan,

    I’m amazed at the wonderful amount of information you’ve put here! Well, I really shouldn’t say “amazed” (LOL!!) since I’ve enjoyed reading your excellent posts on cpaptalk.com for quite some time.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you for providing such great guidance for newly diagnosed people who are about to receive CPAP equipment.

    Laura (“rested gal” on cpaptalk.com )

    • Thanks for your feedback!

  14. Any thoughts on Soft Weaver Mask

  15. Thanks for all this information. I’m going to try for the S-9 VPAP Auto w/ H5i Heated Humidifier. Also will try for a Hybrid full face mask or a Mirage Liberty full face mask.
    I have Medicare. My secondary insurance is “Tricare for life”. My insurance has covered all my doctors visits including my sleep lab visits so far.
    I’m also considering the S8 VPAP Auto 25 BiLevel machine as my second choice.
    Again thank you so much. There is so much to learn.
    cm6961

  16. Hi Chuck,

    From what I understand, Tricare for life is usually easy to deal with as far as coverage and runs pretty much along the lines of Medicare–but VPAP’s require a high level of documentation for medical necessity, so make sure that all the paperwork is in order.

  17. Just found this today after posting yesterday about DME’s and how to change them. I’m hoping I’m not going to get into a mess with changing DME’s after a new Bipap was delivered yesterday. The new DMs said to get Dr and documentation over ASAP before the billing goes in.
    The new DME has therapists who come to the house or i can go there and they can ck the masks machines etc. Last nite with new machine and mask that blew hubby and I out of bed this am…………..and me sleeping all day just did it. I have a live to live and they aren’t going to keep me from doing it. At least the sleep Dr and staff are and hope they will be supportive.
    Thanks for this great post i just stumbled on.
    Judy

  18. All I can say is THANK YOU! I got reamed by a DME and now I can tell u it won’t happen again! I have been on CPAP for the last month…but I have had the machine for 2 yrs. you and cpaptalk have enabled me to change my pressure to a livable setting and I feel GREAT! I have had no new parts for the two years but plan on starting to get them…I have insurance and will take whatever they want to send……some time when I have more time I will tell you just how badly I was reamed…..thanks again!

  19. Thanks for this informative information. Today I was visited by my DME(I am a new user of CPAP). He dropped of an S9 Escape. I decided not to use it tonight because I wanted a data recording model like the S9 Autoset. So the battle begins. Its after hours at me DME but I left a message asking if they can swap this Escape for a data recording model. I’m sure I’ll be getting an ear full of what this website posted about. Being new and not knowing these things and the way they operate put us at a large disadvantage.

    Take care all…….

    • Glad it was helpful, Rob. Rob contacted his DME the next day and they swapped out his machine for a data capable one without argument. Let’s hear it for good self advocacy!!!!

  20. This helps me alot. Thank you very much.

  21. Oh I wish, I wish, I wish that I had done some research and found your blog before getting our CPAP machines! My husband and I were both recently diagnosed — although I had also been diagnosed approx. eight years ago. My experience with that DME, machine, mask and settings was so bad I quit using it after a short time. I didn’t adapt well to the mask and I think the settings were wrong. You’d think that I would have done some research the second time around, wouldn’t you? But I had no idea there were CPAP boards/forums and so much helpful information from CPAP users.
    I knew I’d never go back to my original DME because from what I can remember, he simply handed me a machine, gave me a choice of 2-3 masks and explained how to wear the mask and turn the machine on and sent me on my way. I don’t think I ever slept a full night though using the mask/machine. The mask was uncomfortable and felt like torture and my throat was always so dry. I (stupidly) never realized that I should have gone back and kept going back until the settings were correct. I thought that I was the problem, not the machine.
    Well, recently (eight years later for me) when husband and I were both diagnosed a friend of my husband told us about CPAP2GO in Milwaukee. They have a 30 day mask gurantee. You can try as many different masks as you want within the first 30 days before choosing the one you like best.
    When we went in to CPAP2GO the DME was very nice and showed us different machines. We ended up choosing the Fisher & Paykel because our bedside tables are very small (big bed in a very small room) and I liked the way the water chamber could easily be lifted out and easily cleaned. It’s approx. the same cost as the S9 (which she also showed us) and it’s a data recording model. I hope that we made a good choice. What do you think about the Fisher & Paykel?
    As for the masks…my husband is happy with the second one he tried — the Swift FX — but he is expeiencing 9% (?) leaks because his mouth opens during the night. He tried a chain strap but can’t get used to it. He has a full beard which greatly limits the masks that will work for him.
    He’s going to check with his doctor and see if the pressure could be turned up a bit so that even with the mouth leaks he will still get the 9 (setting) that he needs.
    My first mask was the Swift FX for Her. I experienced HORRIBLE nasal irritation from the silicone pillows. Mostly around the outer edge of my nostrils and just inside. I even got tiny sores that were painful and throbbed during the night. It felt like my nostrils were on fire.
    It also seemed like the “width/thickness” of the barrel (from nose to lips) was too wide and it felt like my nose was being pushed upwards the whole night. The barrel was sitting right on my lip and felt like it was going to cause sores there too.
    The Swift FX for Her headgear was very comfortable to sleep in and although I was in pain with my nostrils, I managed to keep the mask on all night. I used it for 4-5 nights, hoping that my nostril irritation would lessen, but it didn’t.
    Today, while reading your blog — and especially your wonderfully written Swift FX Fitting Guide — I realized that I didn’t have my Swift FX headgear fitted properly and I was also probably using the wrong size pillows.
    When I experienced all the problems with the Swift FX I thought maybe I was allergic to the silicone pillows, so I tried a nasal mask — ResMed Mirage FX for Her. That mask sealed, well but it seemed like it was very close to my eyes/tear ducts and sometimes air leaked into my eyes.
    The Mirage FX for Her also caused me jaw pain — just on one side. I am a side sleeper and I sleep on my left side. When I used the nasal mask every morning I would wake up with pain in my right jaw. It would take a long time — hours — to subside and it would still be tender in the evening when it was time to put the mask on again.
    I tried loosening the side straps, especially the right strap, when I was laying down but it didn’t help.
    So I went back again to CPAP2GO to try a different mask. I am currently trying the Respironics GoLife for Women (nasal pillow mask) and those silicone pillows aren’t irritating my nostrils at all. So I don’t think that I have a silicone allergy. The pillows/barrel are also angled away from my lip so it doesn’t sit on/against my lip. But the cheek straps aren’t real comfortable. The cheek straps are fuzzy covered plastic (?) and they aren’t as easy to sleep on (for a side sleeper) as the wonderfully soft and comfortable Swift FX soft silicone side straps.
    I have three days left on my 30-day mask trial so I may go back and re-try the Swift FX for Her again now that I’ve read your tutorial about exactly how to fit it properly.
    I am a bit anxious because I only have three days left before my 30-day mask trial runs out and I want to find the best possible mask for me so I will keep using the CPAP machine.
    One last thing I’d like to mention. My husband and I have been using our CPAP machines for almost a month and neither of us have noticed any difference in being more awake in the morning and less sleepy during the day. I thought within a few days we would have noticed a difference — especially being more awake in the morning, but we haven’t.
    We mentioned this to the DME and she said that sometimes it takes a couple months of using the machine before noticing a difference.
    My husband has moderate sleep apnea — he supposedly stopped breathing 30 times an hour during the sleep study — you’d think he would have noticed a difference in his wakefulness almost immediately after using the machine.
    I only stopped breathing 16 times an hour. I haven’t noticed any difference in being more awake in the morning since using the machine. We both sleep the whole night with our masks/machines. I get at least eight hours of sleep.
    What do you think about this? Could we possibly need more pressure? Both of our machines are set at “9″ per the doctor’s prescription.
    I’m sorry that this is so long. Thanks again for your wonderful blog and thanks also for any feedback you can give me. I deeply appreciate you taking the time to blog about your experiences with CPAP and DMEs.

    • Wow! You brought up a lot of issues!

      First, I’m glad you found this blog and I hope it will be a good resource for you.

      As for the F&P machines, my first question is which model? The Icon Novo is not data capable, so it’s not much more than a brick that blows air. You state that your husband is having mouth leaks and neither of you feels better yet–data can help determine why that is. Without data, you’re flying blind. Even with data capability the F&P models are problematic because currently there is no way for you as a CPAP user to access detailed data charts. You can download your own detailed charts on ResMed, Philips REspironics, and Devlibiss machines which are fully data capable. At this time F&P Icon software is not available to patients. As far as price, F&P machines are MUCH cheaper than ResMed S9 autos and Elites. It’s just that most insurers pay the same flat fee, regardless of which machine and model you get. So for the DME, they make more profit on the F&P, less on the ResMed. Your DME was correct that for you (assuming you have insurance coverage) the F&P was the same price as the ResMed because your insurer sets the allowable fee. But for the DME, they make more profit on the F&P–that’s probably why you were steered in that direction. Do you prefer to have something that looks good on the nightstand or something that can really help you dial in your therapy so that you do reap the benefits of the treatment?

      Your DME can, though, and it sounds like you have a good DME now who will work with you to download your data and help you problem solve. So if you are not feeling any better (understanding that it takes time once you are getting therapuetically good treatment–that is your AHI’s and leaks are both low), then your DME should be able to look at the data and make recommendations to you and your doctor about how to optimize your treatment. You can ask for printouts of the data, and on CPAPtalk.com you can post your data and ask for advice about how to tweak your treatment (CPAPtalk just changed servers, and they are currently having a lot of technical issues, but those will hopefully be cleared up soon).

      Now, about the mouth leaking. If your husband is losing air through his mouth, he is not getting adequate treatment. There has to be sufficient air pressure to splint open the airway. He’s not getting that. So there are a variety of things to do, but increasing pressure won’t help AT ALL, unless the reason he is opening his mouth in the first place is that the pressure is inadequate. The only way to tell that is to see what his AHI is when he’s NOT leaking. If one chin strap didn’t work, he might try another, he might try mouth taping (difficult with facial hair), or he may simply need to try another mask–a FF mask or a hybrid. BUT, before abandoning the Swift FX, there’s one more thing he can try–training himself to sleep with his tongue on the roof of his mouth. This can seal off the airway from the mouth, reducing pressure in the mouth that causes the mouth to open or the lips to leak. It’s free and relatively easy to learn (practice all day unless you are eating or talking). The most important thing is to stop the mouth leaking, because none of the data is reliable and the treatment won’t work if the air is going out of his mouth instead of down his airway to keep it open. I would guess this is why he is not feeling any better yet.

      As for you, my guess is that your biggest problems with your own mask were because it was not fit properly. Sounds like the Go Life is working well for you. You might want to check out http://www.padacheek.com. The owner, Karen, has a variety of padding products that will prevent the pressure you are experiencing from the straps. (she also makes barrel covers for the swift FX to make the nasal pillows much more comfortable). If you don’t see what you need on her site, email her and she will work with you to come up with something that will work–she’s great to work with! You might also look at changing your bed pillow. I use one of those tempurpedic neck supporting pillows. It has thick neck rolls along the long sides to support the neck, and a “ditch” where your head is supposed to go. As a side sleeper, I sleep so that the mask is in that “ditch” and my head is supported by the top roll, so that there’s little pressure on my face where the mask touches the pillow. I wish I had a picture–it’s really hard to explain that! Maybe it’s time for Toby bear to demonstrate.

      As for that 30 day trial–the mask manufacturers give a 30 day trial for EACH mask–so I would argue that you have 30 days from the date you were given your current mask. Now your DME seems to be pretty good and helpful, so you may not want to push the issue, but if the issue is your comfort and COMPLIANCE with the CPAP, it’s worth arguing. Once you find an ideal mask, if you can get to the point where you use your CPAP all night every night, CPAP2GO will have you as a customer for life and make back whatever it spends on making sure you have the right mask. However, if CPAP2GO is a mail order supplier, they do have a right to limit returns because of the expense of postage back and forth. In that case, you may need to purchase a new mask to start the 30 day trial period over again.

  22. I read this entire page (THANK YOU!) but I don’t understand one of your core concepts:

    “…If the insurers contract with DME’s to provide equipment under a particular HCPC’s code for a particular amount (WHICH IS MY CASE). The DME agrees to provide a machine under that code for the insurer’s amount and you pay whatever percentage of that approved amount is not covered by your insurance company. In most cases, it is FRAUD for the DME to charge you one penny more than the price they agreed upon with your insurance company. Some people refer to this as “balance billing” and in most cases, they are not allowed to do that.”

    Here’s what I don’t get. All parties concerned know that there’s a whole range of possible prices for eligible machines, and one must assume that the “approved amount” strikes some kind of balance between covering “cheap machines only” costs and covering “the sky’s the limit” costs. So, playing the devil’s advocate here, why indeed should the DME effectively lose money by my insisting on a top of the line model and his not being allowed to “balance bill?” For example if you go by cpap.com’s lineup of 15 apap machines there’s a 200% price difference between the lowest and highest cost machines! Something’s not computing!

    Looking forward to your explanation (as I’ll be buying very soon).

    • If you go out to buy a car, you–as an individual–are free to negotiate a price. If you go to buy something at the grocery store or department store, you are free to compare prices from one store to the next, stock up on sales, use a coupon, buy or not buy, etc.

      Purchasing medical equipment and supplies with insurance is very different. You don’t have much choice of vendors (sometimes none at all), someone else sets the price and how much you will have to pay out of pocket, and you have a need that must be met–this type of purchase is usually not optional in the traditional sense. I can do without that filet mignon or fancy dress, I can’t do without my machine and mask if I’m to maintain my health.

      There are contractual relationships involved. If you have durable Medical equipment coverage through your insurer, your insurer is contractually bound to provide that equipment, though you may have to pay a deductible and/or co-pay (also contractual). The insurer may have contractually guaranteed to you that your out of pocket expenses for DME would be limited to a certain amount. In most (not all) cases, the insurer contracts with the DME to provide your equipment at an allowable fee, made up of the insurer’s contribution and your deductibles and co-pays. Generally, the insurer requires the DME to provide an E0601 machine for $X. The insurer doesn’t care if it’s a dumb brick or a fancy APAP machine. To the insurer, an E0601 is an E0601.

      The DME can choose to enter into the contract with the insurer or not. If the DME agrees to the contract with the Insurer, it generally agrees to accept the allowable fee the insurer has set for any E0601 machine as the amount it will receive for an E0601 machine. The DME usually agrees either explicitly in the contract or impliedly by state or federal law to collect on that amount. In some cases, the DME does not agree to do so. If permitted by state law and the patient’s insurer doesn’t require a contracted (preferred) provider so the patient may use any provider, the DME may charge more, but that doesn’t mean that the patient has to accept that higher amount. The patient can walk out and find a provider who WILL accept the insurer’s reimbursement rate.

      Medicare is unique. Not every DME provider agrees to “accept assignment”, but if they won’t accept what Medicare will pay, they have to inform the patient up front and issue something called an “Advance Beneficiary Notice” letting the patient know that they will have to pay more than the Medicare amount. If I were a patient in that situation, I’d walk out of that DME and find a DME who will accept Medicare assignment. I’m not going to feel sorry for that DME’s profit margin. Other DME’s want my business and are willing to accomodate my wishes.

      Profit is more than just a single sale. A person who uses CPAP will have a lifetime of needs for supplies and for replacement machines. If a DME treats me well for the long haul, that DME deserves my business. The DME may not make as much at the beginning, but over the length of the relationship that DME is going to make a lot. If you are looking at CPAP.com, you will see that those RETAIL prices are in most cases lower than the Medicare reimbursement rates for the same machines. Many insurers base their reimbursements on the Medicare schedule. So I don’t buy the fact that DME’s are losing money by accepting the insurer’s rate for a more expensive machine. Generally the DME’s get more from insurers than you would pay out of pocket for a particular machine on CPAP.com. The extra money is supposed to cover support for the patient and maintenance for the machine. Some DME’s actually provide this and earn their money, others do not. Don’t forget that support needs generally lessen over time, but reimbursement rates don’t go down.

      Bottom line is that DME’s would not be doing this if it wasn’t profitable. Clearly they ARE making a profit, as they remain in the business and I believe that big companies like Apria and Lincare must be paying dividends to their shareholders. They do HUGE volumes with some of the major insurers–for example, in my area, Apria has the exclusive contract for Kaiser–that’s a LOT of regular, repeat business over the long term. An Apria employee complained to me about the slim profit margin they get from Kaiser (Kaiser dictates the machine you get, you have no choice and can’t ask for a more expensive machine, BTW), but she was totally out of line. Apria chooses to do business with Kaiser, it can choose not to as well. Not my problem! I, the patient, have NO choice if I want Kaiser to fulfill its contractual obligation to me to provide a machine for my health issue.

      In the big picture, DME’s can choose not to do business with insurers and provide machines if they are not making enough money at it. So far that has not happened to Medicare for example, which suggests to me that they are making a profit, because they definitely are NOT in the business of philantrhopy, as much as they would like us to think so.

  23. Wonderful explanation, thank you!


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